October 11, 2021 at 8:39 am #55618
I am attempting to draw overlay face frame cabinets with a 1 1/4″ overlay. However, the overlay is applied in all directions so that the drawer and doors overlap on a standard 1 1/2″ mid rail. I have to make the mid-rail 3″ wide to achieve the desired 1/2″ reveal between a top drawer and the doors.
Similar problem with the top and bottom clearance. I have changed the Door/Drawer Front Top Clearance and Door/Drawer Front Bottom Clearance parameters but it is not changing how the cabinet is drawn; it is being drawn with 1/4″ reveal regardless of the parameter value.
It appears that the Base Drawer Front Heights parameters are not being respected neither. It appears that the overlay distance and the stile and rail widths are dictating the heights of the drawers and doors.October 11, 2021 at 10:37 am #55621
You are correct. In CabWriter the overlay distance is applied to both vertical and horizontal dimensions. This means that the mid-rail must be 2 X the overlay dimension plus the desired gap between door and drawer fronts. This works quite well for standard overlay dimensions. But 1 1/4″ overlay seems unusually large to me. Why are you using such a large overlay?
Joe….October 11, 2021 at 11:15 am #55622
I don’t have a good answer for that other than that is my preferred style of building cabinets. I like the way it looks. Attached are some pictures of kitchens I built with 1/2″ reveals (1 1/4″ overlay).October 11, 2021 at 12:07 pm #55633
So, the Door/Drawer Front Top (& Bottom) Clearance parameters do not affect anything when the Cabinet Style is Overlay?
Also, I don’t understand the Base Drawer Front Heights on the Face Frame tab. I want a 7 1/16″ high drawer front. In order to achieve that, I need to subtract 2x the overlay,
subtract 2x the Door/Drawer Gap, and subtract the desired reveal from 7 1/16″ and enter that value in the drawer front height on the Face Frame tab. So, in my case:
– 2 1/2 (2x 1 1/4″ desired overlay)
– 3/16 (2x 3/32 door/door gap from Project tab)
– 1/2 (desired reveal)
= 4 3/8
Thoughts?October 11, 2021 at 2:45 pm #55635
First off, let me just say your cabinet designs shown in the photos are beautiful. I am very impressed.
The definitions for Door/Drawer Front Top Clearance and Door/Drawer Front Bottom Clearance parameters can be found in the User’s Guide on pages 320 & 326 for Base and Upper Cabinets respectively. They only apply when there is no Top or Bottom rails.
When CabWriter first came out it did not support overlay door/drawer front designs. Hence, the Base Drawer Front Heights matrix on the Face Frame tab is inset drawer front centric where the drawer opening minus 2 x gap is the drawer front height. When we added overlay support we made the drawer front width the opening width + 2 x overlay distance and the drawer front height the opening height + 2 x overlay. You can map this back to the Base Drawer Front Heights matrix with your equation, though I don’t know why you included the 1/2″ desired reveal. That comes into play when you calculate the top, bottom or mid rails.
I suppose in CabWriter 6 we could provide separate parameters for the sides overlay and the top/bottom overlay. In the mean time you could either use 3/4″ to 3/8″ overlays, or manually change the vertical overlays with native SketchUp tools. That’s the best I can offer now.
Greg, can you add any comments?
BTW Michael, if you want to carry this discussion further you can call me on my mobile: 413-961-9115.
Joe…..October 12, 2021 at 8:29 am #55651
Yes, it would be great if there was a separate parameter for the top/bottom overlay.
For now, I’ll experiment with either a.) using a 1/2″ overlay and manually changing the doors/drawer fronts height or b.) using a 3″ wide mid rail and 1 1/4″ wide bottom rail and manually changing the rail widths. I’m not sure which would be easier/quicker at this point.
I may take you up on that phone conversation but I want to work through this current project design a little further to see if I come up with any other issues for which I need help. What hours are you available for a phone call?October 12, 2021 at 10:27 am #55653
The best hours for me are between 10 am and 4 pm ET.
Joe…..October 13, 2021 at 4:42 pm #55683cabwriterKeymaster
I’m curious how you deal with hinges on a door with such a large overlay? What type of hinges do you use? Since very little of the FF shows, what is the downside of using a narrower FF with a smaller overlay because the exterior look would be the same. Also, wouldn’t it give you larger openings? Seems like you’re artificially restricting the opening side but not gaining anything from an external look point of view. Just curious, I’ve never run across this type of overlay before, so was curious how you arrived at it…
As Joe mentioned, we will put it on the list, but I can’t guarantee anything at this point…
GregOctober 24, 2021 at 4:46 pm #55937
Hi Greg. I use Blum 39c hinges, usually. They are 1 1/4″ overlay for face frame applications. All your points are valid but I don’t find that the restriction on the opening side to be excessive. It’s only an additional 3/4″ on each side at the frame. The inside of the box is not reduced so the storage capacity is the same regardless of whether the face frame is narrower or not. I’m self taught and this is the system I came up with years ago, the origins of which I don’t really remember.
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